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 Roll System? Opinions, if you will.

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Roll System, Y/N?
I don't think this is a good idea (Before Reading).
3%
 3% [ 1 ]
I think this is a good idea (Before Reading).
14%
 14% [ 5 ]
I don't think this is a good idea (After Reading).
53%
 53% [ 19 ]
I think this is a good idea (After Reading).
30%
 30% [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 36
 

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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 1:29 am

The server was fine, just that Xach couldn't keep supporting it. If it wasn't for Azshara, how many people would be here you think?
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almerosk
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 7:26 am

Valcaine wrote:
The server was fine, just that Xach couldn't keep supporting it. If it wasn't for Azshara, how many people would be here you think?

In all honesty? About the number we have now.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 7:55 am

Most people that are against a Roll System don't really seem to know how a roll system works so I'll quote a little guide I made somewhat earlier to help. Do note that not all Roll Systems are like this since I tried to modify it slightly to fit the server somewhat more. And I do have to agree with Almerosk, people here often don't act as mature as they should.

Renierius wrote:
Rolling in a fight:

This is quite simple and fair, also adjustable to a person's "power", as for example a farmer wouldn't be able to kill a Death Knight that easily since he would have less attack value and possibly less health too.

Step 1. With your opponent(s) and possibly allies you agree upon how much health each participants will have, normally it is about 5. Take for example that a Mage would normally have less health then a Warrior does but possibly has a higher attack or a area of effect attack, a attack with another kind of special effect and etc.

Step 2. Next you agree upon how many damage each participant will do when a attack is successful and when it is a critical attack, normally a successful attack would do 1 point of damage and a critical attack would 2 points of damage. You might wonder when a attack is successful and when a attack is critical, a attack is successful when the attacking party has a higher roll then the defending party and a attack is critical when the attacking roll is 50 points more then the defending roll.

Step 3. The parties start fighting each other round by round until the fight is over, I'll give you a example of a fight like this. A lot is possible in fights like these like dazing/stunning a character for a round or to stuck their movement for a round or two.

Step 4. Fate will decide who or even if someone wins, remember that having 0 health could also be considered as unconscious or such if both or most participants agree upon this.


A example of one such fights:

(I'll make this very basic to make it easier to understand, but of course you can make it as extensive as you want and use fitting emotes to enrich the fight.)

Orc Warrior (5 HP, 1/2 ATK) vs. Human Warrior (5 HP, 1/2 ATK)

The Orc attacks and rolls a 78 for his charge and the Human rolls a 65 in defence, thus losing one health point, leaving him with 4 more hit points.

Now it's the Human's turn to attack, he rolls a 62 and the Orc rolls a 5 in defence which makes the attack a critical attack and leaves the Orc with 3 health points.

The Orc makes another attack and rolls 45 on which the Human rolls a 47, narrowly blocking the attack and thus not losing any health points.

After this it's again the Human's turn to attack and he rolls a 4, the Orc rolls a 67 and with this easily manages to block the attack. (You could think that this is perhaps a critical defence, but normally there isn't something like a critical defence.)

The Orc now rolls a 83 and the Human rolls a 34, almost a critical attack, reducing the Human's health points to 3.

And etcetera... this can continue until either the Orc or the Human wins or if one of them gives up/flees, depending on the situation.

I hope that you find this system useful, since it makes things more fair and more fun too!
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Zamoonda

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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 9:40 am

almerosk wrote:
Valcaine wrote:
The server was fine, just that Xach couldn't keep supporting it. If it wasn't for Azshara, how many people would be here you think?

In all honesty? About the number we have now.

That is incorrect. 70% of the server is from Azshara :3 (Including the entire GM Team, I believe, Vend was from the PTR, Madge I know him, Whinniesper as well, I believe Ecro was there, too, Ataman was there for more then half a year (Like myself) And..who am I missing? Noi dea about Kalenas, and..Well, that's it.

And, almost all of them where very addicted to the server, personally I wouldnt' have left it for ANY reason. ANd many others I know. The Roleplaying Community of Warcraft 3 died a year ago. World oF Warcraft follows.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 7:03 pm

Zamoonda wrote:
The Roleplaying Community of Warcraft 3 died a year ago. World oF Warcraft follows.

The truth, spoken out loud. At long last.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon May 25, 2009 8:09 pm

Wow, you guys are retarded. If a farmer is against a Death Knight, use your logic; the Farmer wouldn't be able to seriously harm the Death Knight and the Death Knight would be able to seriously harm the Farmer. If you can just talk to the person about it for one moment, and he comes to understand that, hey, my farmer will totally not win against a full fledged Death Knight, there really shouldn't be a big deal.

In other words, you throw a bomb at someone, you win the roll, you're not going to kill them in one shot. No way. You win five times, and you can do that; otherwise, you miss and mildly damage the person.

All these little modifiers are really weird and unnecessary. Just if you get the higher roll five times, you basically win. If the two people don't want to use rolls, then you don't use rolls. It's just a choice, not a mandatory thing.

Anything I miss?
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Tue May 26, 2009 3:54 am

SourPuddle wrote:
Wow, you guys are retarded. If a farmer is against a Death Knight, use your logic; the Farmer wouldn't be able to seriously harm the Death Knight and the Death Knight would be able to seriously harm the Farmer. If you can just talk to the person about it for one moment, and he comes to understand that, hey, my farmer will totally not win against a full fledged Death Knight, there really shouldn't be a big deal.

In other words, you throw a bomb at someone, you win the roll, you're not going to kill them in one shot. No way. You win five times, and you can do that; otherwise, you miss and mildly damage the person.

All these little modifiers are really weird and unnecessary. Just if you get the higher roll five times, you basically win. If the two people don't want to use rolls, then you don't use rolls. It's just a choice, not a mandatory thing.

Anything I miss?

I have to agree with you, SourPuddle.

The little modifiers I had in my guide were only there because people kept going on about situations were one participant obviously has a big advantage.

But in all honesty I also don't think people should use all these little modifiers because it's just not practical and very confusing.

And about the Farmer vs. Death Knight thing, why would a farmer even fight a Death Knight?
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Thu May 28, 2009 7:38 am

Renierius wrote:
And about the Farmer vs. Death Knight thing, why would a farmer even fight a Death Knight?

The Death Knight called him a weenie. Because only weenies are farmers.

Farmer Bob was offended by this and insta-killed the Death Knight by impaling his head with a pitchfork after rolling a crit and taking advantage of the opportunity.

Thank you, Roll System! Not only are you too time-consuming to set up to work perfectly and learn, you also promote luck instead of actual creativity and skill in roleplaying.

Rolling would be fine on occasion to stand out against godmodding or powergaming.. But if you rely on it too much, your roleplay is no better than a dice game.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Thu May 28, 2009 7:26 pm

Thanks Runei, next time you may want to consider reading.



Farmer calls the Death Knight a name.

Farmer totally tries to kill the Death Knight and attempted to impale him with his fork.

Farmer: 100
Death Knight: 1

The Death Knight gets hit with the pitchfork, and it scratches hard against his saronite armour

The Death Knight attempts to hit the farmer with a single swing.

Death Knight: 80
Farmer: 40

The Farmer gets hit with the runeblade, he looks down at the gash wound that bled wildly. He screamed in fear, and tried to impale the Death Knight once more.

Farmer: 100
Death Knight: 1

The Death Knight tried to parry the farmers blow, but the pitchfork bends the saronite in slightly inwards. He tries to wedge his sword into the Farmer while he's close enough.

Death Knight: 1
Farmer: 100

The Farmer quickly moves out of the way, avoiding the sword.

And so on. Please don't say that the Role system lacks creativity; it breeds it. You have a set of whether you win or lose, and you just need to fill in those gaps with your creativity.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Thu May 28, 2009 8:03 pm

SourPuddle wrote:
Farmer totally tries to kill the Death Knight and attempted to impale him with his fork.

Farmer: 100
Death Knight: 1

The Death Knight gets hit with the pitchfork, and it scratches hard against his saronite armour


WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

That is what is called, an Epic Post. There is no aftermath to this. a NATURAL 1 is the WORST roll a being could POSSIBLY get, without penalties, which is 0 or -s, in which case it is instant death. Now, not only to make it worse this Epic Fail Post is not only an Epic Fail, its a Dual Epic. Meaning the Farmer just killed him. Instant MASS crit. There is no walkign away after this.

You don't stand up, you dont grunt, and you sure as hell do not shake this off.

Natural 1 is epic fail.
Natural 10/50/100/1000 whatever is Epic Win.

Combined, its called wtfomgyou1hittedme!!!11!1!!!11!1!!!!!111ONE!
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Thu May 28, 2009 8:57 pm

Scyon, tell you what, edit what you said or remember that this is not the QQ forum.

Cool? Cool.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Thu May 28, 2009 9:16 pm

What do you mean Edit? I was simply delving into a point, making sure it was clear how messed up Rolls can get.

Epic Win + Epic Fail = somebody's fucked x)
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 11:00 am

Yeah, Scyon, let explain this to you. Even with a critical hit, you're not going to kill someone in one hit. I personally dislike critical hits, but when people use them, it does not entitle you to killing them in one shot. Sure, it means that you can hurt them badly, but you can never one shot in /roll unless both parties agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 11:53 am

Roll system that was pushed up for the poll was adapted from DnD. In DnD if you make a 0-1 on a roll, while the opposing party makes a 20 you lose, theres no 'ohh you can come back from that' the only thing worse than getting a 1 is getting a 0, which you can't get from a roll. Heres an example:

One of the times i was DnDing with a friend, me and him got in a fight VS a Sandstone Golem. Fight was going well til i rolled a 1. It got worse when the DM rolled a 20 for the golem.

Now, heres what happened:

Scyon rolls 1
Golem rolls 20

Scyons sword smacks into the golems armor at a bad angle, the sword refracts and stabs him through the chest, puncturing a lung and cutting several arteries.
Golem, enraged by the feeble, weak attack, brings a fist down on the prone form of Scyon and crushes his skull with a disturbing crunch.

The DM Specifically told me, there is no way in hell i could have survived that. Not what happened, but getting a 1 and my opponent getting a 20.

It doesnt matter what both parties want. If this roll system is implemented, there isn't an agreeable outcome to that situation, one character -will- die, he will either be reduced to quite litterally the most critical point, or he will die instantly.

Im trying to explain this so its easily gathered and understood.

Its like..... Fighting the Lich King, with cloth armor, and a wooden sword, with no amount of spell knowledge. First off, if the Lich King didn't die of laughter, I think you would die pretty much by being flicked, am i right?
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 12:19 pm

Lich King isn't really that powerful, to be honest.. ;x

A mature red dragon could kick his ass.

Only reason he's hard to beat is because of the armies he controls. He basicly just a really powerful Death Knight.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 2:59 pm

Undisclosed wrote:
Lich King isn't really that powerful, to be honest.. ;x

A mature red dragon could kick his ass.

Only reason he's hard to beat is because of the armies he controls. He basicly just a really powerful Death Knight.

Actually, according to Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, he is as, if not more, powerful then the single Goddess / God in the universe, Elune.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 3:15 pm

If that was true, then he wouldn't of been so highly effected by Putress.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Fri May 29, 2009 3:27 pm

Undisclosed wrote:
If that was true, then he wouldn't of been so highly effected by Putress.
Putress FTW

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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Sat May 30, 2009 12:06 pm

Note that this isn't DnD, it's WoW. Although the rolling system was adopted from DnD, you don't need to use it that way if YOU feel like it's unfair. I sure don't want to die in one hit, and I doubt you guys want to either, so this is one way to avoid it.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Sat May 30, 2009 12:22 pm

Thats the thing. The Roll System isn't unfair, but when you try to brign it from DnD, which works it in correctly, to WoW, which has no way of working it in correctly, you lose all playability
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Sun May 31, 2009 4:46 pm

Okay, well, we're not trying to bring it from DnD. Use the simpler way.
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:54 am

Simpler way? The "Simpler Way" is what you're saying isn't common sense. Farmer Brown can shank Sir Killsalot and insta-kill him, Sour, if the roll is lucky enough. Anything more complex would cause users to leave.

There is no thought process or creativity when using a roll system. I could fight a monster, acting out most of my creative strikes and spells and whatnot. And all my opponent needs to do is say, "Burkle strikes at Runei with fist." And he can win just by continuing to use that.

I wasn't directing anything towards you. Way to totally attack my post though. (-_-)b
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PostSubject: Re: Roll System? Opinions, if you will.   Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:06 am

I believe this topic as survived long enough. The results are clear, the players do not wish to have the roll system implemented. As of now this topic is closed, seeing as all it's doing is providing hate.
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