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Amled

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PostSubject: Ingame power, a talk.   Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:59 pm

G'day.

I thought i'd write this little topic about ingame power. And i am not talking about social power ( the power to pursade other players minds ) no i am talking about Ingame power as in " So you want to fight? Well you have already lost because i am god.. So hah "

Ofcourse this game has some basic rules about power and also have restricted races, but i cannot help to feel that people like me ( I am a Paladin, nothing special ) are left out of plots, stories and RP fights simply due to the fact that we are well, inferior.

Why am i saying this you might ask? Well, it might just be me, but it seems like that the most powerfull people ( How ever you want to describe that will work ) get to enjoy more RP and stories being made.

For, what is a paladin going to do against a Dragon? Or A Arch Mage? Or a Grand Apothecary. Because at this point it just feels like you have to create some kind of demi-god charather to be able to be active in any kind of role play, because if not, your going to get your ass kicked up and down the floor, hard.

Ofcourse it can be defended by saying " Lore is not fair, deal with it " Well fine, i can accept that, but with so many powerful things at play and to few normal things going on, its like your surrondend with a giant bunch of supermen that can beat everyone and everything while you can swing a sword and maybe heal someone with a healing spell.

Bah but now i'm just blabbering and it is getting late, but i just hope that you people get the point of this post, mainly that there needs to be made some kind of change.

Also i just want to say shortly that i in every way possible respect all of the people who role play the various stronger classes such as dragons, and i am not saying they are doing a poor job at it either.
And please dont' think i am trying to troll or flame or just QQ'ing.. Just trying to raise a point, but i doubt that anyone agrees with me.
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AmionDragonbane

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:21 pm

Thank you for posting this, and I do hope it gets more responses. This is a -huge- issue on any server, and I've been unfortunate enough to see two previous favorites of mine go dead because of it. People who can't RP their "normal" characters because of the sheer amount of Epic creatures in the game get frustrated. They're pushed aside in events, can't RP non-combat because the "superiors" are constantly "right". They can't RP combat, either because any attack can be countered with "I'm a (Whatever), I'm stronger, deal with it.". I believe that unless you've made an application for it, or talked with one of the higher GMs -seriousy- about your character, then you are just as powerful as the next non-application character. People should be invited to play all different classes and races, not JUST the godly Titans and Dragons.

To any who may be reading, and denouncing this thread as simple complaints, I'd like to point out that this is a server-wide issue that effects -MANY- people. There is (In my opinion) nottthing wrong with people who want to play more powerful characters, such as dragons, demons, etc... But I think that there is something wrong with EVERYONE having about 3 / 4 of these epic characters, and not being able to RP them to the level that they should be.

I'd also like to thank a few of the current GMs, for running events that can be participated in by all players. Very Happy
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darky



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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:45 am

Indeed, this is all so perfectly right. There's nothing wrong if a person wants a stronger character and etc, but when it all goes into two characters fighting and one being completely incapable of doing a thing, meanwhile the "stronger" one started it all is just plainly dumb and more or less pointless. And before we actually get into some stupid nonsense, I'd like to state that even like Amled said "Lore isn't fair" there are still -less- imbawtfepicuber creatures rather than completely normal ones. And to begin with dragons are already an issue here. Despite the fact that everyone can participate in events which were ran by GM, how many can actually do anything there but watch? Since the number of simple characters is waaaay outnumbered by epicly epic dragons. Whenever there's something happening, there are atleast 5-8 dragons there...Then again, there's nothing wrong with that but are stronger beings really supposed to get into it all like that? In my own experience I've seen idioticy beyond helping. I mean, are dragons really supposed to get all "OMFG I'M DRAGON, I'M NOT SOME GODAMN WEAK BASTARD WHICH YOU CAN INSULT!" after saying one rude word? Yes, they are creatures worth respect, but when so called "noble" creatres get insulted this easely then why don't we simply turn this server into "Imba characters rp only". Here again, I am blabbering about dragons...

Well, like I've said earlier, I absolutely agree with Amion and Amled. And of course I'll repeat what Amion said. Thanks to GMs for the fact that everyone can participate in them, until they end up being meeting place for all dragon RPers in the server.
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Zamoonda

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:51 am

darky wrote:
Indeed, this is all so perfectly right. There's nothing wrong if a person wants a stronger character and etc, but when it all goes into two characters fighting and one being completely incapable of doing a thing, meanwhile the "stronger" one started it all is just plainly dumb and more or less pointless. And before we actually get into some stupid nonsense, I'd like to state that even like Amled said "Lore isn't fair" there are still -less- imbawtfepicuber creatures rather than completely normal ones. And to begin with dragons are already an issue here. Despite the fact that everyone can participate in events which were ran by GM, how many can actually do anything there but watch? Since the number of simple characters is waaaay outnumbered by epicly epic dragons. Whenever there's something happening, there are atleast 5-8 dragons there...Then again, there's nothing wrong with that but are stronger beings really supposed to get into it all like that? In my own experience I've seen idioticy beyond helping. I mean, are dragons really supposed to get all "OMFG I'M DRAGON, I'M NOT SOME GODAMN WEAK BASTARD WHICH YOU CAN INSULT!" after saying one rude word? Yes, they are creatures worth respect, but when so called "noble" creatres get insulted this easely then why don't we simply turn this server into "Imba characters rp only". Here again, I am blabbering about dragons...

Well, like I've said earlier, I absolutely agree with Amion and Amled. And of course I'll repeat what Amion said. Thanks to GMs for the fact that everyone can participate in them, until they end up being meeting place for all dragon RPers in the server.


I agree almost completely aswell, Arashi -- You must understand there are about only 10 - 12 dragon Players- -- Dragons in all there's maybe sadly about 20 - 30. Most of the players have a dragon, or two, or if they want to increase the population of a poor flight, which should very much assist the community -- Personally I manage with one dragon, true, I could very much use a second dragon (One of my main characters, Albenor is unavailable until I get approved (If I get approved) ). But if you made a farmer, don't expect to participate in some great battle of the Forsaken or a fight in Northrend. I personally managed with a simple Corporal -- What do ya know? Thanks to RPing as a simple Corporal I actually got promoted to Knight-Captain and participated in many battles, and turned that character into The Sorrowbringer -- Even a farmer can get recruited into the army, and do great deeds. It's all about -finding- that character, and find yourself at the right time, at the right place, at the right moment.
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Jintal544

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:56 am

I agree completely with Zamoonda. You can't just be a random class or hero who, just because you can't find an rp, just randomly end up in some big battle, event, etc. You have to build your character: The longer, the better. And you shouldn't just say that it will take too much time and that you'd rather rp the way you feel like it. You just need to devote your time into making a good rp, not just randomly appear everywhere...
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Zamoonda

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:26 am

Jintal544 wrote:
I agree completely with Zamoonda. You can't just be a random class or hero who, just because you can't find an rp, just randomly end up in some big battle, event, etc. You have to build your character: The longer, the better. And you shouldn't just say that it will take too much time and that you'd rather rp the way you feel like it. You just need to devote your time into making a good rp, not just randomly appear everywhere...


Exactly my point, I never even intended for Metlen to become the Sorrowbringer or some second-in-command of the Infantry..I didn't come to the RP, the RP came to -me-. If you're Arashi, you hang around Moonglade or Dalaran, and maybe, one day -- The Nightmare will attacka Moonglade and Arashi here would do a great deed that will make his character much more interesting. If you're Metlen the Sorrowbringer one day you can be killed and revived as a Knight. If you're Average Joe the Farmer tommorow when the Scourge attacks you can save your farm and be recruited to the Army to use your skills better. -That's- the idea of RP, don't plan your RP, let it flow through you, and send you either to heaven, to become the Lord of Y, to die and become a Scourge ghoul or to go mad and join the Sobelzebouv expedition.
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AmionDragonbane

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:41 am

I love what you guys are saying, it's good stuff. XD The problem that arises is finding a way to "enforce" this a bit more, without running off and annoying poor Aethir for everything. Personally, I believe applications for dragons, and anything above normal, need to be way harder to get into, as several people have gotten in previously by copying / pasting the wiki into their applications. If there's a way to have people demonstrate their RP skills, I believe that should be taken into consideration as well... But maybe that's just me. Razz I'd love your thoughts and ideas on this... I believe I already forum-talked with Zamoonda on this, over in the "Restricted Character" section, no?
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SourPuddle

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:46 pm

Quote :
The problem that arises is finding a way to "enforce" this a bit more,

Keep in mind that, even though it's not a policy of this server, if you don't want to RP with someone you don't have to. If you stop for a moment, see that they're doing something you don't like with there characters power, tell them to OOCly stop and try to work out some fairness issues. If they do not work out, if the person refuses to understand then just tell them that you don't want to RP with them if their character is going to be that powerful. Apologize, say you're sorry for wasting there time, but you'd much rather play somewhere safer and with someone who is more agreeable. Though, this is full of flaws, it might bring the player to realize that maybe being a character who's not so powerful isn't so bad after all. I hope this helps, guys!

Also, another method is rolling. Dice does not choose sides, it is completely unbiased. Lose five or three times, you lose. A little more complicated version goes under, if they get to 0, they're knocked out and -1 would be death. Otherwise, normal battles must have both participants willing to lose otherwise, someone may godmod. Good luck!
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Zizzech

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:53 pm

SourPuddle wrote:
Quote :
The problem that arises is finding a way to "enforce" this a bit more,

Keep in mind that, even though it's not a policy of this server, if you don't want to RP with someone you don't have to. If you stop for a moment, see that they're doing something you don't like with there characters power, tell them to OOCly stop and try to work out some fairness issues. If they do not work out, if the person refuses to understand then just tell them that you don't want to RP with them if their character is going to be that powerful. Apologize, say you're sorry for wasting there time, but you'd much rather play somewhere safer and with someone who is more agreeable. Though, this is full of flaws, it might bring the player to realize that maybe being a character who's not so powerful isn't so bad after all. I hope this helps, guys!

Also, another method is rolling. Dice does not choose sides, it is completely unbiased. Lose five or three times, you lose. A little more complicated version goes under, if they get to 0, they're knocked out and -1 would be death. Otherwise, normal battles must have both participants willing to lose otherwise, someone may godmod. Good luck!

I am seeing where you are coming from, but yet lets say you tell me oocly. I go on the forums, say in OOC, whatever that you are a horrible Rper because you wont give other RPs a chance. Etheir way I agree but for the most part disagree.
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SourPuddle

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:13 pm

Quote :
I am seeing where you are coming from, but yet lets say you tell me oocly. I go on the forums, say in OOC, whatever that you are a horrible Rper because you wont give other RPs a chance.
Well, that's defamation, which is generally disrespect. I'm pretty sure that you're not a horrible person because you don't want your normal character fighting a guy with super powers, and if you don't, it shouldn't be a big deal. You don't have to RP with someone if you don't want to. If you're not having fun, something's wrong. But I see where you're coming from.
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AmionDragonbane

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:11 pm

Sour, I like where you were going, but I have to say that I'm quite split on the idea. I do like it a lot, but I think it could be easily abused so much.

SourPuddle wrote:

Keep in mind that, even though it's not a policy of this server, if you don't want to RP with someone you don't have to. If you stop for a moment, see that they're doing something you don't like with there characters power, tell them to OOCly stop and try to work out some fairness issues.

Good idea, but this is where you get into the part of "My character's better than yours." You've prolly seen the OOC showdowns where people brag about their characters' epicness... This would probably cause a lot more of that. It'd be great if people WANTED to play their characters a bit more toned-down, but really, the purpose of making a powerful character is to BE unfair (Though there are a few exceptions).

SourPuddle wrote:
If they do not work out, if the person refuses to understand then just tell them that you don't want to RP with them if their character is going to be that powerful. Apologize, say you're sorry for wasting there time, but you'd much rather play somewhere safer and with someone who is more agreeable.

Another good idea, though it can be used in a very abusive way. It could easily be used by any person whose character is in a fatal position, and wants to escape; Simply type "(( Sorry, but I can't stand how you RP, and I don't need to take this. Bye.", and you're in the clear. The point of dragonslayers, for example, is to... well... slay dragons. I imagine how hard it would be to do this when every time you get to the brink of killing one, they immediately leave the situation. I think it's a good idea, and definitely should be used later on, but for now, I think it'd be leaving a lot of room for error. Thoughts?
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SourPuddle

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:19 pm

Exactly what I was thinking! I wrote that there is most likely flaws with it because sometimes people aren't polite. I meant to say it as the '(( Okay, I'm sorry but I really don't want to RP this, man. ))' as a last effort thing when the person just will not reduce his characters strength output to a fair level.

I think I should've exagerrated more on the 'flaw' part, hehe, and another thing is, is that I've never even played on this server yet. I'm still waiting for my reply back. I hope to join the community and spend some time with people, have fun and RP.
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AmionDragonbane

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:20 pm

Lol, it's no problem! I do like your idea, though, and as I said. XD

Also, Vendryas may not respond when you send in the application to join... Get the hamachi up and try it, your account may already be activated! Feel free to hit me up ICly, usually on as Tashunke or Katriana.
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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:42 pm

Personally,

Talking about the example. First posted.

I always like to have people rping with me, when Im on Aqonixa/ Aqua. I like to keep her in her mortal form and fight like that. So Razz If ya wanna rp with this Dragon. Send me a tell Very Happy
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Amled

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:59 am

Its nice to see that so many people responded to my thread, and i understand the various view points.. most of them.. The exception being that i can't really see character vs character battles being that epic if your going to roll for everything ;P I do however subscribe to the theory of " Character evolves into stronger person over time " As i think that is a great way to carry forward the story, the problem however is that there is no recognized way of doing this, that basically means that yes you can evolve your character but that doesn't mean that other people recognize your achievements and such.

Another thing would be that while your character is evolving he is weak as a baby in the wild, like tadpoles in a pond you are weak to any kind of attack and you are the bottom of the food chain.
While ofcourse this gives perfect sense this also means that there will be many characters ( including my own ) who will be stuck at " weak " level because they will not have the chance to evolve because any other character they interact and fight with will most likely beat them blue and yellow.

That ofcourse is the natural way of things happening in this game and also how stories progress and history is formed, but in a server, as mentioned, where there from the start are alot of really powerful people, that means that you will most likely be permanently at the bottom of the food chain, for a while.

*Scratches chin*

I know that most of my posts ( all two of them ) don't really lead to any solutions, nor do they point to a solution. The Reason for this is basically that i do not have a solution as i can see the issue from both sides of the spectrum and see the positive on both sides. I mean, if a good story is to progress it needs powerful characters and dragons and whatnot, but on the other side, that means that alot of other people won't have a chance in the RP fight food chain.

I think i'll end my post here and hope that the discussion goes on, so the server can work out some sort of solution.

Also thank you for the offer Zoe, i will most certainly accept it. Very Happy
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BlatantDisobedience

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:20 am

When I'm on Belintar, I limit myself in mortal form, and frankly I still manage to beat people.

He's strictly no-magic based except for a few things, in those few things, he's pretty much immune to medium/low powered shadow/unholy attacks if he blocks the attacks with his shield.
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Razmataz
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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:05 am

I can't RP at all with anyone. Their characters have a power level of 9000. Me? 0.

Lame imo.

Never have I seen ANYONE who isn't trying to be a hero.
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AmionDragonbane

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:51 am

Razmataz wrote:
I can't RP at all with anyone. Their characters have a power level of 9000. Me? 0.
Never have I seen ANYONE who isn't trying to be a hero.

There are a lot of people who don't RP their characters like heroes; You just have to look for them in the more "unusual" places. Most of the time, they won't be on the front lines of battle. Look for the people with "Normal"-looking clothing, as well; Though it doesn't necessarily mean anything to be draped in T8 armor, a lot of people who are playing "Lesser" characters wear armor that's more toned-down. There's still a lot of good RP on this server, if you look for the right people.
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Jintal544

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PostSubject: Re: Ingame power, a talk.   Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:38 pm

AmionDragonbane wrote:
Razmataz wrote:
I can't RP at all with anyone. Their characters have a power level of 9000. Me? 0.
Never have I seen ANYONE who isn't trying to be a hero.

There are a lot of people who don't RP their characters like heroes; You just have to look for them in the more "unusual" places. Most of the time, they won't be on the front lines of battle. Look for the people with "Normal"-looking clothing, as well; Though it doesn't necessarily mean anything to be draped in T8 armor, a lot of people who are playing "Lesser" characters wear armor that's more toned-down. There's still a lot of good RP on this server, if you look for the right people.

That is true, but as my days on the server increase, it seems that less and less people do average heroes, and even creating there own armor and such. And Raz, u can rp with mai Tauren Chieftan dude anytime! His powerlevel < 9000
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